Kevin Reath Interview - GEMx
Narration: Kevin Reath
Transcript:
00;00;02;09 - 00;00;04;16
Hi. My name is Kevin Reath.
00;00;04;16 - 00;00;08;10
I am the Deputy Program Manager for Earth Service and Interior,
00;00;08;10 - 00;00;11;17
and I also serve as the Deputy Program Scientist
00;00;11;17 - 00;00;14;17
for the GEMx mission.
00;00;15;08 - 00;00;18;24
So what is GEMx?
00;00;18;24 - 00;00;24;19
GEMx is a mission, a NASA and the United States Geological
00;00;24;19 - 00;00;29;03
Survey mission that we're flying in the Southwestern United States
00;00;29;15 - 00;00;32;16
to help us to better understand what minerals
00;00;32;16 - 00;00;35;16
exist on the surface.
00;00;36;11 - 00;00;40;28
GEMx came from the need for us to have a better idea
00;00;40;28 - 00;00;44;06
of where critical minerals exist in the United States.
00;00;44;26 - 00;00;48;01
Critical minerals are important because they're these minerals that
00;00;48;01 - 00;00;51;29
we don't necessarily have access to in the United States right now.
00;00;52;19 - 00;00;55;07
We may have those minerals available.
00;00;55;07 - 00;00;56;03
But we don't really know.
00;00;56;03 - 00;00;59;03
We haven't done the mapping that needs to be done,
00;00;59;19 - 00;01;00;29
for us to know where these minerals might exist
00;01;02;05 - 00;01;04;05
and how we can access them.
00;01;04;05 - 00;01;07;19
And what the GEMx, mission does is
00;01;07;19 - 00;01;11;20
that we're flying an airborne mission at 60,000ft.
00;01;11;20 - 00;01;13;26
So very high in the air.
00;01;13;26 - 00;01;17;11
And we'll be, using a sensor
00;01;17;11 - 00;01;21;29
that can determine the location of these minerals right on the surface.
00;01;21;29 - 00;01;25;03
So only if they're right on the surface can we see these minerals.
00;01;25;18 - 00;01;30;29
And, by identifying these minerals, we potentially know where more critical
00;01;30;29 - 00;01;34;06
minerals exist in the United States, and we can go from there.
00;01;34;14 - 00;01;40;16
We we do the initial identification, and then other companies or industries
00;01;40;16 - 00;01;43;19
take over and figure out ways to access these minerals.
00;01;46;14 - 00;01;47;23
A critical mineral
00;01;47;23 - 00;01;51;26
is a mineral that we don't necessarily have in the United States,
00;01;51;26 - 00;01;57;06
or that we have to import a large percentage of, this creates a risk
00;01;57;06 - 00;02;00;22
for the United States and having to import a large percentage of these minerals.
00;02;01;16 - 00;02;04;22
So by us having this mission,
00;02;05;04 - 00;02;08;02
we reduce the risk to the United States
00;02;08;02 - 00;02;12;02
by identifying where these minerals may be in the United States
00;02;12;14 - 00;02;16;17
and then taking it to the next step where we can access these minerals
00;02;16;17 - 00;02;21;24
and actually mine them and support things like green infrastructure,
00;02;21;24 - 00;02;26;14
lithium for the batteries in your computer or in cell phones,
00;02;27;08 - 00;02;31;03
lots of day to day things actually use these critical minerals.
00;02;31;10 - 00;02;34;15
So they're really important for us to have access to.
00;02;34;25 - 00;02;37;14
And, this mission is going to help us
00;02;37;14 - 00;02;41;22
to increase the access that we have without needing to import the minerals.
00;02;44;05 - 00;02;46;02
GEMx is part of a
00;02;46;02 - 00;02;49;29
larger umbrella, from the Department of Interior,
00;02;49;29 - 00;02;55;01
specifically the USGS, the United States Geological Survey.
00;02;55;22 - 00;02;58;02
So that group works with us
00;02;58;02 - 00;03;01;04
to identify where we collect the data.
00;03;01;14 - 00;03;04;25
They're actually going to be the group that takes the data that we have,
00;03;04;25 - 00;03;10;10
which is going to be our reflectance data and our radiance data.
00;03;10;24 - 00;03;11;25
And they'll take that
00;03;11;25 - 00;03;15;22
and make actual mineral maps that they will be sharing years from now.
00;03;16;00 - 00;03;19;23
And those mineral maps will help anyone that's interested in
00;03;19;28 - 00;03;23;13
looking at where minerals may be in the southwestern United States,
00;03;24;00 - 00;03;26;04
to see where critical minerals may be.
00;03;26;04 - 00;03;28;15
So it's really dependent on the minerals that they're looking at.
00;03;28;15 - 00;03;31;17
Things like the Hectorite mineral.
00;03;32;07 - 00;03;33;16
That is lithium-bearing
00;03;33;16 - 00;03;36;16
Which means that we can get lithium,
00;03;36;16 - 00;03;38;16
which we use for many different things from this mineral.
00;03;38;16 - 00;03;41;20
And so that's one of the key minerals, that we're working with.
00;03;42;02 - 00;03;47;14
This is also, part of the larger Earth MRI initiative from the USGS.
00;03;47;24 - 00;03;51;17
So we're working we're producing these satellite data
00;03;51;24 - 00;03;54;24
that will identify minerals right on the surface.
00;03;54;29 - 00;03;57;29
At the same time, other groups from the USGS
00;03;58;06 - 00;04;01;04
are running different experiments that will help them to learn
00;04;01;04 - 00;04;04;08
different things about where the minerals may be beneath the surface.
00;04;04;25 - 00;04;07;11
Things like electromagnetic mapping
00;04;07;11 - 00;04;10;11
or very detailed topographic mapping.
00;04;10;14 - 00;04;13;01
All these things will help us to determine
00;04;13;01 - 00;04;15;29
where these minerals exist and how we can access them.
00;04;18;12 - 00;04;19;12
So this
00;04;19;12 - 00;04;22;13
is actually an airborne campaign on board
00;04;22;13 - 00;04;26;26
an airplane called the ER-2 that flies at 65,000ft.
00;04;27;10 - 00;04;28;26
It's a really interesting airplane.
00;04;28;26 - 00;04;31;26
You need to get in a spacesuit if you want to fly it.
00;04;32;15 - 00;04;35;05
It's not something that you'd see normally in an airport.
00;04;35;05 - 00;04;40;06
It's a pretty NASA exclusive, instrument that we have for scientific mapping.
00;04;40;29 - 00;04;44;26
And we we have a couple of what we call
00;04;44;26 - 00;04;48;18
airborne sensors that are attached to these planes.
00;04;49;03 - 00;04;52;08
We have a sensor called the AVIRIS instrument.
00;04;52;28 - 00;04;57;21
This helps us see in the visible shortwave infrared wavelengths.
00;04;58;01 - 00;05;00;26
So that's just beyond what we can see
00;05;00;26 - 00;05;03;26
with our eyes, the visible shortwave wavelength.
00;05;04;04 - 00;05;05;21
We can see a lot of different minerals
00;05;05;21 - 00;05;09;01
in this wavelength, but we take it a step further as well.
00;05;09;18 - 00;05;13;09
We also have the MASTER instrument attached to the ER-2
00;05;13;20 - 00;05;18;06
Now, MASTER sees in a different wavelength the thermal infrared wavelengths,
00;05;18;12 - 00;05;21;27
which is beyond visible shortwave, infrared wavelength.
00;05;22;22 - 00;05;23;29
What we can do with this instrument.
00;05;23;29 - 00;05;27;04
So this is the wavelengths that you can actually see heat from.
00;05;27;12 - 00;05;31;26
So instead of seeing reflectance data like you would see in the visible
00;05;31;26 - 00;05;36;14
shortwave infrared, we see radiance data in the thermal infrared.
00;05;36;25 - 00;05;40;06
And we can see entirely different types of minerals
00;05;40;15 - 00;05;43;12
in this thermal infrared wavelengths.
00;05;43;12 - 00;05;46;12
So with the combination of these two sensors,
00;05;46;16 - 00;05;51;18
we can get a much better idea of the suite of minerals that exist on the surface
00;05;51;27 - 00;05;56;08
and a better understanding of what minerals that exist that we're flying over.
00;05;59;01 - 00;06;02;10
You might be asking yourself, why is NASA doing this?
00;06;02;10 - 00;06;04;13
Isn’t NASA a space agency?
00;06;04;13 - 00;06;06;09
And it is. That's true.
00;06;06;09 - 00;06;10;04
But it's also the National Aeronautics and Space Agency.
00;06;10;14 - 00;06;14;06
And that aeronautics covers things like airborne flights
00;06;14;09 - 00;06;17;02
We have an entire aeronautical branch that we're running out of
00;06;17;02 - 00;06;18;26
the Armstrong Flight (Research) Center.
00;06;18;26 - 00;06;22;09
This branch provides us with many different planes.
00;06;22;26 - 00;06;25;20
We can actually, by collecting data
00;06;25;20 - 00;06;30;11
from airplanes for airborne data, rather than from space,
00;06;30;22 - 00;06;33;22
We can see things at a much better spatial resolution.
00;06;33;25 - 00;06;37;17
And what this means is that we can get much more detailed
00;06;37;17 - 00;06;40;17
information of what we're seeing on the surface.
00;06;40;20 - 00;06;43;22
So, that's why it's important that NASA is
00;06;43;22 - 00;06;46;22
both a space and airborne agency.
00;06;46;22 - 00;06;49;24
We can use airborne data to help us understand
00;06;49;24 - 00;06;51;25
what we're seeing from our satellite data.
00;06;51;25 - 00;06;56;13
And in this case, we can use airborne data to have a better idea
00;06;56;13 - 00;06;59;17
of where exactly minerals exist on the surface
00;06;59;25 - 00;07;04;02
and get a more, more detailed picture of where these minerals are.
00;07;06;21 - 00;07;09;21
So to give you an idea of what a day
00;07;09;21 - 00;07;13;16
in the life of the GEMx mission is like, when we're running the mission.
00;07;14;09 - 00;07;17;09
The day starts off with a weather brief,
00;07;17;10 - 00;07;20;22
so both NASA and the USGS
00;07;21;01 - 00;07;24;04
gets a weather brief from the Armstrong Flight (Research) Center.
00;07;24;22 - 00;07;28;05
That weather brief helps us to understand where clouds exist
00;07;28;05 - 00;07;31;20
during the day and where good locations might be to fly.
00;07;32;05 - 00;07;35;22
Based on that information, we choose flight locations
00;07;35;22 - 00;07;38;22
from previously identified flight lines.
00;07;39;03 - 00;07;42;15
We fly over these locations that normally takes about
00;07;42;20 - 00;07;45;16
6 to 8 hours in the day.
00;07;45;16 - 00;07;49;18
After that flight lands, we then see what type of data
00;07;49;18 - 00;07;53;01
we had, identify if there are any issues with the data
00;07;53;01 - 00;07;55;21
that mean we might have to re fly over the site
00;07;55;21 - 00;07;59;17
and have a brief meeting about where we might be flying tomorrow.
00;08;02;01 - 00;08;04;26
So you might be asking yourself, what are we doing on
00;08;04;26 - 00;08;08;17
the ground specifically, what is USGS doing on the ground?
00;08;08;17 - 00;08;10;29
Because they're doing most of the ground work.
00;08;10;29 - 00;08;16;00
Now, what they do is help with ground verification and validation.
00;08;16;13 - 00;08;20;00
So what that means is they're on the ground at the sites
00;08;20;00 - 00;08;21;15
that we're flying over.
00;08;21;15 - 00;08;24;00
They do a pixel survey.
00;08;24;00 - 00;08;27;24
So what this means is they map out the approximate
00;08;27;24 - 00;08;31;18
dimension of a pixel that might be acquiring,
00;08;32;09 - 00;08;35;21
within that pixel, they take many different mineral samples
00;08;36;02 - 00;08;40;11
to try to understand the exact percentage of minerals within that pixel.
00;08;40;22 - 00;08;44;20
They also collect samples and send them back to the lab.
00;08;45;03 - 00;08;46;17
Now, what they do with those samples
00;08;46;17 - 00;08;49;19
is they run it through a thing called a spectrometer.
00;08;50;04 - 00;08;55;00
Now, that spectrometer gives something that we like to call a spectra.
00;08;55;13 - 00;08;59;09
This spectra can be thought of as like a fingerprint that identifies
00;08;59;09 - 00;09;00;20
specific minerals.
00;09;00;20 - 00;09;03;00
Each mineral has its own spectra.
00;09;03;00 - 00;09;06;00
So we know based on ground data
00;09;06;10 - 00;09;09;25
what spectra correlate to specific minerals.
00;09;10;04 - 00;09;14;05
We can then look at the airborne data and have a better idea of exactly
00;09;14;05 - 00;09;18;01
what minerals we're looking at, and what fingerprints of spectra exist
00;09;18;01 - 00;09;18;20
in those data.
00;09;21;07 - 00;09;23;05
he might be asking yourself,
00;09;23;05 - 00;09;27;25
what exactly is a pixel and what does it represent in data.
00;09;28;07 - 00;09;33;24
So a pixel in GEMx covers approximately 15m².
00;09;34;06 - 00;09;36;29
So that's about the size of,
00;09;36;29 - 00;09;39;11
quarter of a house or,
00;09;39;11 - 00;09;40;21
the width of a road.
00;09;40;21 - 00;09;44;04
It's not very big, but it's big enough that we're not seeing things
00;09;44;04 - 00;09;47;09
like specific cars or people on the ground.
00;09;50;02 - 00;09;54;21
So there are a couple of things that I'm really excited about for this mission.
00;09;54;26 - 00;09;58;06
And they all come down to one word possibility.
00;09;58;24 - 00;10;01;26
There are so many possibilities for these data.
00;10;02;16 - 00;10;06;12
We could learn so much about the mineralogy
00;10;06;12 - 00;10;10;19
or the minerals that exist in not just the Southwestern United States,
00;10;10;27 - 00;10;14;25
but in the larger swaths and larger areas of the United States.
00;10;15;03 - 00;10;18;22
As this mission continues to fly, we can also use these data
00;10;18;22 - 00;10;20;03
for many other things.
00;10;20;03 - 00;10;23;04
We can identify how healthy plants are.
00;10;23;04 - 00;10;26;26
Do we have pollution in certain areas?
00;10;27;06 - 00;10;29;24
How much sediment is in a stream?
00;10;29;24 - 00;10;33;21
We're really just starting to learn the, the vast
00;10;33;21 - 00;10;38;00
possibility that exists within the data that we are collecting.
00;10;38;00 - 00;10;40;25
And I think we're going to see a lot of that in the years to come.
00;10;43;18 - 00;10;46;07
geology is a foundational science.
00;10;46;07 - 00;10;49;01
It's one of the hard physical sciences
00;10;49;01 - 00;10;51;29
that, I'm sure a lot of you are aware of.
00;10;51;29 - 00;10;54;29
It helps us to better understand the Earth.
00;10;55;06 - 00;10;59;15
With geology, we can understand why volcanoes erupt.
00;11;00;03 - 00;11;02;25
We can understand why earthquakes happen.
00;11;02;25 - 00;11;05;15
We can go back and understand
00;11;05;15 - 00;11;09;12
what has happened in the Earth from the creation of the Earth.
00;11;10;00 - 00;11;13;14
With each step that we have to better understand
00;11;13;14 - 00;11;17;06
geology, we better understand ourselves, and we better understand
00;11;17;06 - 00;11;18;25
the history of our planet.
00;11;18;25 - 00;11;23;15
And with GEMx, we are advancing our understanding of geology.
00;11;23;15 - 00;11;26;15
We're advancing this foundational science.
00;11;26;29 - 00;11;30;02
that if we have a better understanding of geology, you can live a better life.
00;11;30;02 - 00;11;32;18
We've been looking at our Earth for a long time.
00;11;32;18 - 00;11;36;08
We've been making geologic maps for a long time, mostly by hand.
00;11;36;18 - 00;11;40;10
And because of that, we are just starting to scratch the surface
00;11;40;10 - 00;11;40;19
You can know where the best place to plant your plants are.
00;11;40;19 - 00;11;45;17
on understanding geology in general and where these minerals exist.
00;11;45;17 - 00;11;49;16
And GEMx is taking this entire experience a step further.
00;11;49;16 - 00;11;52;16
With GEMx, we're creating large maps.
00;11;52;16 - 00;11;55;16
The the first two years, we've already collected
00;11;55;25 - 00;11;58;25
close to 500,000km².
00;11;58;25 - 00;11;58;29
Does it have rocks that are very hard, or does it have soft rocks
00;11;58;29 - 00;12;03;02
In the next couple of years, we're going to try to get to something of around
00;12;03;02 - 00;12;03;09
that might potentially erode and cause a landslide?
00;12;03;09 - 00;12;06;21
925,000 more square kilometers.
00;12;06;21 - 00;12;07;00
These are all things that with better understanding of geology, we can
00;12;07;00 - 00;12;10;19
This will be the largest geologic
00;12;10;19 - 00;12;14;06
airborne campaign that has ever existed.
00;12;14;06 - 00;12;14;21
you know, address the risk that might exist.
00;12;14;21 - 00;12;19;16
And we have already exceeded the record for the largest geologic campaign.
00;12;19;16 - 00;12;20;00
It is already
00;12;20;00 - 00;12;25;00
just within the first two years, and we just have more progress to go, from here.
00;12;29;25 - 00;12;30;08
Yeah,
00;12;30;08 - 00;12;33;19
There are a couple of main challenges with this campaign.
00;12;34;01 - 00;12;39;08
There's always the challenge that you have with any airborne campaign, clouds.
00;12;39;12 - 00;12;44;01
You know, you might try to fly over a specific location five different times,
00;12;44;01 - 00;12;45;18
and there might always be a cloud
00;12;45;18 - 00;12;47;29
over the location that you really want to look at.
00;12;47;29 - 00;12;50;22
We try to address that with daily weather reports
00;12;50;22 - 00;12;54;08
and trying to fly over areas that we think will be cloud free.
00;12;54;27 - 00;12;59;28
There's also issues with identifying specific minerals in the past,
00;13;00;09 - 00;13;03;05
we could identify large mineral groups
00;13;03;05 - 00;13;06;21
now that we have a higher spectral resolution,
00;13;06;21 - 00;13;11;08
which means we can see more data at different wavelengths
00;13;11;08 - 00;13;16;01
along the visible shortwave, infrared and thermal infrared wavelengths.
00;13;16;20 - 00;13;20;21
We can start to identify specific minerals on the surface.
00;13;21;01 - 00;13;24;26
Previously, we could only do something like this in a lab environment.
00;13;25;09 - 00;13;28;20
Now we can produce lab like spectra from an airplane,
00;13;28;29 - 00;13;33;07
which is really the next generation of, of spectral science.
00;13;33;07 - 00;13;37;29
It's we're seeing a vast improvement over past data, within this field.
00;13;39;01 - 00;13;40;20
And because of that, there
00;13;40;20 - 00;13;44;13
are challenges in identifying each specific mineral.
00;13;44;22 - 00;13;47;14
Some minerals look very similar to others.
00;13;47;14 - 00;13;52;05
And because of that, we have to run a lot of field testing
00;13;52;16 - 00;13;57;00
to figure out what the exact spectra are that correspond to each mineral.
00;13;57;12 - 00;14;00;10
We're doing that, we have specific minerals that we're
00;14;00;10 - 00;14;03;10
the most interested in, and we're giving a lot of attention to,
00;14;03;19 - 00;14;07;18
but that will always be a challenge, at least in the near future for this field.
00;14;07;18 - 00;14;10;18
Science.
00;14;12;22 - 00;14;14;00
What's my favorite mineral?
00;14;14;00 - 00;14;18;04
You might think this is kind of boring, but my favorite mineral is quartz.
00;14;18;13 - 00;14;23;25
And that's because quartz has so many variations, so many colors.
00;14;24;11 - 00;14;27;10
People love it for so many different reasons.
00;14;27;10 - 00;14;31;22
It's such an interesting mineral that, I tend to gravitate towards it.
00;14;35;29 - 00;14;37;09
so one of the sensors
00;14;37;09 - 00;14;40;21
that we're working with in GEMx is the AVIRIS sensor.
00;14;41;13 - 00;14;44;18
Right now there are several different adverse sensors.
00;14;44;26 - 00;14;49;21
There's the AVIRIS Classic sensor that really started off imaging spectrometry.
00;14;49;21 - 00;14;55;03
We also have the AVIRIS Next generation sensor.
00;14;55;07 - 00;14;58;08
And we this next year we'll be flying the AVIRIS
00;14;58;08 - 00;15;00;24
three and AVIRIS five sensor, which are very new.
00;15;00;24 - 00;15;06;12
And we're very excited about, AVIRIS has a long and storied past with NASA.
00;15;06;24 - 00;15;10;10
AVIRIS has done everything from helping us to identify
00;15;10;10 - 00;15;15;06
where oil spills exist, the extent of oil spills, helping us to know
00;15;15;09 - 00;15;20;12
how healthy vegetation is and agricultural agriculture is in certain areas.
00;15;20;12 - 00;15;24;20
It's also helps us to know where pollution might exist and,
00;15;24;20 - 00;15;29;09
where wildfires, the extent of wildfires and where burn scars exist.
00;15;29;19 - 00;15;32;10
So this is a very versatile instrument,
00;15;32;10 - 00;15;35;14
and we feel very fortunate to have it on our campaign.
00;15;39;26 - 00;15;40;23
I just want to say that
00;15;40;23 - 00;15;43;28
it's it's been a real pleasure to be a part of this campaign.
00;15;43;28 - 00;15;46;28
I feel like it's a much needed,
00;15;47;05 - 00;15;49;17
resource for the entire United States,
00;15;49;17 - 00;15;52;17
one that we will benefit from as a country,
00;15;53;16 - 00;15;54;23
potentially globally.
00;15;54;23 - 00;15;57;23
Because as we identify where these worlds exist,
00;15;57;29 - 00;15;59;24
not only will they be used in the United States,
00;15;59;24 - 00;16;02;26
but they'll be used by other countries as well.
00;16;02;27 - 00;16;06;15
I will help the world in general become a better place.
00;16;06;24 - 00;16;09;09
It also will support green infrastructure.
00;16;09;09 - 00;16;12;29
So a lot of the renewable energy fields will benefit
00;16;12;29 - 00;16;14;18
from this campaign as well.
00;20;09;09 - 00;20;11;13
the the genomics campaign
00;20;11;13 - 00;20;15;25
is part of a larger umbrella called the Earth MRI campaign,
00;20;15;25 - 00;20;18;25
where the Earth Mapping Resources Initiative.
00;21;08;12 - 00;21;09;26
So genomics is
00;21;09;26 - 00;21;15;06
part of a larger United States Geological Survey umbrella called the Earth
00;21;15;11 - 00;21;20;02
Mineral Resource Investigation Campaign, or Earth MRI.
00;21;20;23 - 00;21;24;25
Earth MRI is run through the USGS, which is part of the Department
00;21;24;25 - 00;21;28;23
of the interior, and it funds this whole,
00;21;29;16 - 00;21;31;27
you know, push towards identifying critical minerals.
00;21;32;26 - 00;21;35;26
This whole critical mineral is an entire.
00;21;36;10 - 00;21;39;05
So title nine of the Clean Energy Act
00;21;39;05 - 00;21;42;05
is entirely dedicated to identifying critical minerals.
00;21;42;14 - 00;21;46;13
The Earth Mineral Resource Investigation campaign is in response to that.
00;21;46;26 - 00;21;51;05
And it helps us to identify where minerals exist in the United States,
00;21;51;15 - 00;21;54;13
both on the surface and below the surface, through
00;21;54;13 - 00;21;57;13
several different types of campaigns.
00;21;57;17 - 00;22;01;14
We have our spectrometry campaign that helps us identify
00;22;01;14 - 00;22;03;08
where minerals exist on the surface.
00;22;03;08 - 00;22;07;09
But there are also different campaigns that help the USGS to identify
00;22;07;09 - 00;22;10;14
what the detailed topographic map of the United States,
00;22;10;24 - 00;22;14;07
as well as electromagnetic campaigns, and give us a better idea of where
00;22;14;07 - 00;22;15;26
minerals exist below the surface.